The Avoch Archive

Oh; some more. Alfreda's father was Donald Brodie Patience; born Avoch in 1877; died in Australia in 1957.

Hi Max According to the 1881 census James and Jessie had a family of four children, Ann b1871, Isabelle b 1873, James W b 1875 and Donald b1877 all born in Avoch. James parents according to his marriage cert were Donald Patience and Janet ms Patience. Janet's parents were James Brodie and Janet ms Patience. James and Janet were married in the Congregatioal Church Avoch on the 5th Sept 1863

Hi Max Another piece of your family history. The following inscription can be found on a flat gravestone in the Old Cemetery Avoch Erected by James William and Donald Patience in memory of their loving father James Patience who was drowned at Avoch 5th Jan 1882 aged 39 years also their sisters Jessie who died in infancy; Jessie Helen who died 7th Jan1885 aged 3 years and the said James William who died 12th June 1903 aged 28 years; also their mother Jessie BRODIE who died 29th June 1926 aged 88 years.

Willie. Many thanks for this. Question from a novice - what does

Hi Robert Culnagower is still in existence but as far as I know it is only a dwelling house. It is situated on the road between Burnfarm Cottages and the junction of the top road to Killen. It could have been a farm or a croft in earlier times and maybe the land was taken over by neighbouring farms. Grace Mackenzie

Hi My family are also descended from Donald McLeman, he was actually born in 1710 and married Ann McLeman in 1729.His father was John who married Agnes Grant in 1702 in Cromarty. Donald and Ann had 4 children James, William, Donald and an N ( dont know christian name only the initial). Both my parents families are from Fraseburgh, my father was Wison McLeman and my mother Elizabeth was a Davidson.I have a family tree including links with Potach, although my direct line is thru one of his brothers Donald

Hi Michael. I would be really interested to know where you were able to get the record of a Donald McLeman born in Avoch in 1710. The Avoch records we have today only go back to 1727 and I have never heard of any surviving before that date. I know that there are Cromarty records going back much further than the Avoch ones so do you mean the record is a Cromarty one? Any help you can give me would be really appreciated. Best Regards Ann.

Hi Ann Go to brocher.tribalpages.com (Should come up as FLOOERS O' SCOTLAND) By the way could you let me know where you found that Donald and Janet had 13 children as ive not been able to find that many

Hi Michael. I went to that site and it is very interesting but it's not official records unfortunately. The GROS records are the only official ones that we can take as genuine. They can be accessed online though Scotland's People website for a small fee pay per view or those fortunate enough to live close enough can go and look the records up on site. The internet is full of dates and claims on Family Trees that people haven't ever checked against official records unfortunately but often they are a good starting point as long as we check the dates are correct. I wasn't the one who found the 13 children. I think it was Loraine Craig who said that. I did find 17 people living in the small house my Grandmother lived at in the 1911 census in Avoch and that really blew my mind wondering where they all slept and ate.

Hi Pamela. In my family I have a Janet Skinner born 18 April 1737 who I think was the Janet Skinner who married an Alexander Patience 'dutchman' on 7 May 1767. The father of that Janet was a Donald Skinner but I have no idea when he was born. Janet could possibly be a younger sister of your Donald born 1726 but as the mother's were not named back then it is really difficult to know. Best Regards Ann

Hi Anne, Thank you for your help. I have confirmed that your Janet Skinner born 18 April, 1737 is the sister of our Donald Skinner born 31 August 1746. Along with your Janet, I found a brother Hugh Skinner born 22 June, 1740. Katherine Skinner born June, 1741. William Skinner born 5th August, 1744. Then our Donald born 31 August, 1746. Their father was listed as Don. no more information. Maybe this might be as far as I can go because of the lack of records kept. I did find two Janet Skinner's both born 18 April, 1737, one born in Cromarty and the other born in Avoch. It seems to much of a coincidence to me I think they must be the same person. What do you think? Everyone else is born in Avoch.

Hi Pamela. I agree with you that the two Janets will be the same person and I also found all those other children you mentioned born to a Donald Skinner. The only problem I can see is that the Avoch records we have don't start until after 1726 so there is no record of a Donald Skinner born 1726 in Avoch.The first record of a Donald Skinner born in Avoch is the one in 1746. I thought to myself he must have been born in Cromarty but when I checked the indexes for Cromarty on Scotland's People there is only a Donald Skinner born 3 March 1719 to Alexander Skinner and Margaret Monro and a Donald born 8 April 1730 to an Alexander Skinner and Ann Clerk. I checked the whole of Ross and Cromarty back till 1670 and no other Donald Skinners turned up although there were Skinners in those records back to 1681 in Cromarty. I didn't check Skinner spelt any other way though. There were also Skinners born in Nigg from 1732 to 1736 including two whose fathers were Donald. I also found another later family group of Skinners born to a Donald father in Avoch. They were Catherine 1765, Jannet 1773, Charles 1776, Alexander 1780. There was also a James born 1783 with no name for the father. I can't think of any way that someone found a record of Donald Skinner born in Avoch in 1726 unless somewhere there are records not available to us today. There were lots of children that weren't registered in the early days I would say but that still doesn't explain how someone came up with the 1726 date.Good luck with your search. Best regards Ann.

Hi Steve, Highland Family History Society produced several booklets on gravestones in the Highlands including one on the gravestones in the old Cemetery at AVOCH. I came across the following info which may be of interest to your family. Grave No 183 – The inscription on the gravestone is as follows; In loving memory of Betsy BRODIE beloved wife of Alexander McLEMAN who died at 4 John St Avoch 9th March 1907 aged 51 years also their daughters Sarah died 15th Sept 1912 aged 24years; Janet died 20th May 1914 aged 23years Hughina who died in infancy, also their daughter Jane beloved wife of Alexander DUTHIE who died 28th Feb.1918 aged 37years and their only child Elizabeth aged 2years, also their daughter Mary died 4th Jan 1925 aged 40 years and also the said Alexander McLEMAN died 3rd Mar. 1927 aged 77 years

Hi Willie, I'm a patience, living in Australia. My great, great grandfather, David Patience D 22 march, 1880, is rememberd on grave monument no 416, old churchyard, avoch. Erected by John & Janet Patience. Can you tell me how to purchase or view the booklet you mentioned above? I am visiting avoch in may 2012 and wish to know if the grave is still there as my intention is to visit it? thanks Kathryn Patience

Hi Kathryn The booklet is Willie you forgot the title? J McL

Hi Kathryn Something wrong in the transmission.

Monumental inscriptions Old Graveyard Avoch published by Highland Family Society Inverness. Hope you get this correctly this time. Hi Willie, What are you trying to do? JM

Hi Kathryn, The stone you are looking for is listed as No. 286 in the Gravestones booklet. It also names other relatives in the family

Hello Willie. My grandfather Alexander McLeman owned the house at 4 John Street, Avoch until his death in 1960. He had three siblings, Lewis, Margaret and Catherine. He married Margaret Windram from Eyemouth. His daughter was Betsy McLeman, born 1907, my mother who married John Jack of Avoch in 1933.

Hi Evelyn, my mother and your auntie Ann were old school friends, and are still in contact. Her address is as follows-Mrs D Campbell,86 Glenfarne Street BEXLEY 2207, SYDNEY AUSTRALIA.If you want any more info, feel free to contact my mum(Catherine Patience) on 01381 620577.

Thank you so very much for this info I will make the most of it x

I am from Melbourne, Australia and my husband's family all came from Avoch, Scotland. The oldest record we have is the marriage of Alexander Mcintosh and Elizabeth Reid. Alexander's parents were William Mcintosh and Janet Jack. All the families are intertwined and I would like to sort them out. There are also Sutherlands in Melbourne. I think that the Mcintosh's lived in at 10 or 12 Shore St Avoch. Alexander and Elizabeth were married in 2nd of October 1863. Elizabeth's parents were Hugh Reid and Margaret Hood. I would love to hear from anyone who knows about these families.

Helen, I had a look at the censuses for 1871, 81 and 91 1871 - Alexander McIntosh’s address is Seashore Road, I assume that to be Shore St. but an individual house no. is not listed. His wife’s name is given as Betsy and they had three children all born in Avoch, William born 15th Feb 1866(mother’s name is entered as Betsy), Margaret born 1868 and Mary Ann born 1870. 1881 – The address is given as 4 Shore St. Two additional members of the family are Alexander born 1877 and Hugh born 1879 1891 – The address is 12 Shore St. and the members of the family listed are Alexander the father , Elizabeth(name changed back to birth name) Alexander aged 14 occupation given as fisherman and Hugh aged 12. Alexander and Elizabeth were married in the Congregational Church by the Rev. David Philip.

To willie and betty stewart I want to thank you for the information on the mcintoshs in avoch. i would be grateful for any more information regarding the reids and jacks whom also married into this family of mcintoshs. hugh and william mcintosh were the two members who came to australia and also donald sutherland

Is this your family Helen? At Ross & Cromarty Roots (see the web-site) there is the grave with: Hugh & Janet (Jack) McIntosh, William McIntosh Sacred/to the memory of HUGH/McINTOSH scipper in Avoch/who departed this life August/4 1797 aged 40 years and/of JANET JACK his spouse/who departed this/life April 3rd 1814 aged 50 years/likewise/in memory of their son ALEX/ANDER McINTOSH Scipper/in Avoch who departed thsi life/the 4 day of March 1828/aged 44 years. Justly and deeply regretted and also/in memory of ANN[JACK?] who dep/arted this life the -----day/--of---aged---years and/to WILLIAM son of ALEX./McIntosh aged 41 years/also to his wife JANET JACK/who died---aged ---years.

Helen - Hugh Reid and Margaret Hood were my maternal g g grandparents. My g granny was Mary Ann Reid born in 1834. I think the other children of Hugh Reid and Margaret Hood were Catherine, Hugh and James (Twins), Donald, Ann and Betsy (your Elizabeth). The parents of Margaret Hood were Donald Hood and Margaret Jack.

Dear Grace Thank you for your reply, its great to be able to go back a generation. Betsy was born in 1837 and married in 1863 to Alexander Mcintosh. I don't know if you would know when they died or were buried - probably Avoch. Also do you know the date of Hugh and Margaret's marriage or death or any history you wish to share on the family of Hugh and Margaret Reid. If you wish to know anything about our family in Australia I am willing to tell you. Regards Helen

Dear rob thank you for your information but i am not sure this is the same family the mcintoshs and the jacks seem to be so many i will look into it regards helen

Hi, My paternal grandfather William Jack was born in Avoch. His father was James Jack (b 1877) and his mother was Isabella McCleman (b 1877). Their parents were Robert Jack (1828) and Mary Cowie (b 1840), and James McCleman (b 1841) and Janet Patience (b 1842) respectively. Not sure of much beyond that. Robert's father was Alexander Jack (married to Margaret), and Alexander's father was Donald Jack (married Elspet). James McCleman's parents were William McCleman and Margaret. Can anyone help me establish further links? Thanks Ken

Dear Ken, Your mother Anita and I are first cousins....you visited us in Holland many years ago. I am writing this from Japan where I am with our son James Alexander at the moment. I have done some research into the Avoch fisher families, and we can share the information we have. You can see some of our photos on this archive. Sincerely Alister/Ali Jack

Dear Helen Hugh Reid and Margaret Hood were married in Avoch on 3rd January 1817. Margaret died at the Dock Avoch on 14th November 1879 and she would probably have been buried in Avoch Old Churchyard. I have not been able to trace Hugh Reid's death. He is on the 1871 census shown as retired fisherman aged 79 and when Margaret died in 1879 she was shown as being the widow of Hugh Reid so he must have died between 1871 and 1879. When I was searching on Scotland's People for Hugh's death I came across the death of his son Hugh (twin of James) who died in 1859 aged 18 of rheumatic fever. He was an apprentice gardener. Alexander MacIntosh died on 4th October 1915 as a result of a fall on the shore at Avoch opposite 12 Shore Street. Betsy MacIntosh (Reid) died just one month after Alexander, on 8th November 1915 aged 79. Both deaths were registered by their daughter Margaret Sutherland. [I think this was from Grace - editor]

Hi All, My great grandparents were Donald (Toldan) Patience (b 26 July 1864) and Christine McLeman (b 23 Jan 1863) of Avoch. They had 9 children, 2 died in infancy, 6 migrated with them to Melbourne in 1922 and my grandmother Mary and her husband John Cousland and their 2 children came 2 years later. (4 more children were born here, my mother included). I went to Avoch with mum in 1995/6 and had long chats with Jessie Patience who seemed to have an amazing memory. I now have lots of lists but not sure where they all fit in but I'm sure they do somewhere.

Hi Helen, Thanks for your obvious enthusiasm for the sites. I'm not sure how your suggestion would work in practice - the sites work well in collecting pictures and anecdotes, and there are lots of genealogical sites out there which handle the complicated structure involved much better than we could ever do. Feel free to post links to sites with info about your family tree - just don't put the http:// bit at the front of any links as our spam blocker will reject them.

There appears to be a problem on transmission of replies. I have sent two replies to Kathryn Patience on her question on Avoch Churhyard Gravestones and both have come up in words that are incorrect or are partially correct or only partially transmitted. Is the problem at your end in terms of emails? Hi Willie, This e-mail seems ok. JM

Hi Ann, I remember the Rosehaugh and Integrity R at the ring-net visiting Peel, Isle of Man in the 70s, these were the last INS ring-net boats to fish from the IOM. They had a good season with a shot of 300 cran one day, they were both well down in the water berthed alongside the breakwater. A grand sight. I remember they had black hulls and dark brown wood work. Prior to this the Zephyr and Fragrance visited Peel a few years previous. Later years saw the herring pair trawlers Maureen, Adventurer and Vision visited the IOM fishery. Where did the Avoch boats use the drift net? Sorry no photos of these boats, just memories. I would like to hear from anyone who has memories of fishing from the IOM. Mike Craine - Isle of Man

Hi Mike, I think John Skinner would be able to tell you all about these boats and the fishing in the 70's. If you post a comment under one of the photos he has put on this site he can probably tell you all you want to know. My family came to Australia in the early 1920's so I am no use to tell you about any of those boats.

Hi Ann, I have added some of my family images and will add some more soon. All the best John McLennan (McLeman)

Hi Ann, Maclemans and Patiences are also in my family line. The Maclemans most closely related to me moved to Lanarkshire by 1877, where my great great grandfather George Macleman renamed himself... [sorry, comment truncated somehow]

Hi Helen, Thanks for getting in touch. What a pity my mother and Grandparents never knew your family were out here. They would have been so pleased to meet them. Make sure you keep in touch. All the best. Ann